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're not in the union. stephen moore, "wall street journal." who would be next? >> there are a number of states neighbors to michigan really looking at this legislation. i'll name a few to you, bill. pennsylvania, ohio, west virgina, states like that are competing against southern states. remember a lot of jobs and a lot of manufacturing has moved from the midwest, the kind of rust belt of america to the south in part because those southern states are right-to-work. can i mention one other thing if i could, bill, about this issue that is important? bill: sure. >> there is so much misinformation what it means to be a right-to-work state. i want your viewers to know this, if you're a right-to-work state it does not ban unions, bill. simply means that workers who work for a unionized company have the right as an individual to join the union or not. it does not ban unions. bill: to be more specific, if you're not a member of a union, in michigan you're required to pay union dues. >> that is exactly right. bill: under this law you're no longer required to pay dues for something you're not gets servi
, not so much. bill: some of these warnings now the national debt is nearing dangerous levels. steven moore is here with the "wall street journal." what does it mean that the warnings are there, steve. >> the amazing thing about this debt. i was thinking when i first came to washington which was in the early 1980s, the debt level was about $2.5 trillion. now we are at 16.2 trillion. by the way every president goods back to dwight eisenhower has promised that they will balance the budget and the debt keeps getting bigger and bigger. the real tragedy is that over the last five years the debt has increased by almost $6 trillion. that is more money than was borrowed from 1776 through the year 1976. bill: that's ridiculous. >> it is a tragic situation. bill: what is the danger in this economically speaking for us. >> the danger is two fold. one is if you look at the budget right now and we continue on this pace of borrowing we are expected to do, trillion dollar deficits for as far as the eye can see we are looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of a trillion dollars each year bill in only ser
sustain the one-two punch is anybody's question. patti ann: joining us now is steve moore from the "wall street journal." hopefully he can give us some answers. good morning, steve. what is the most immediate impact in we go over the cliff? >> we are talking about january 2nd taxing rising on over a hundred million americans. this is a big sock to the wallet of americans of every income group. let's just talk about the middle class for a minute. for those earning about 45 to 75,000 a year they are looking at paying somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,500 a year more in taxes. it's not just the warn buffets and bill gates that will be hit by tax increases. the other part of the cliff that we don't talk that much about is the automatic spending cuts would take effect starting on january 2nd, an 8% reduction in major spending categories, national defense, many of what we call the domestic discretionary programs would also be hit. this is a big fiscal wallop to the economy and a lot of economists believe it could cause a double-dip recession. patti ann: on the other hand we are hearing from
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